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The Indictment that brought Clay L. Shaw to trial:
THE INDICTMENT.
"The Grand Jurors of the State of Louisiana, duly impaneled and sworn in and for the body of the Parish of Orleans, in the name and by the authority of the said State, upon their oath, PRESENT That one CLAY L. SHAW, late of the Parish of Orleans, between the 1st day of September and the 10th day of October, in the year of our Lord, One Thousand, Nine Hundred Sixty-Three, with force and arms in the Parish of Orleans aforesaid, and within the jurisdiction of the Criminal District Court for the Parish of Orleans did willfully and unlawfully conspire with DAVID W. FERRIE, herein named but not charged and LEE HARVEY OSWALD, herein named but not charged and others, not herein named, to murder JOHN F. KENNEDY, contrary to the form of Statute of the State of Louisiana in such cases made and provided and against the peace and dignity of the same."
Signed ALVIN V. OSER, Assistant District Attorney of the Parish of Orleans.
No. 198-059 (M-703) Section 'C'
STATE OF LOUISIANA versus CLAY L. SHAW
INDICTMENT FOR VIO R.S. 14:26 (30)
TRUE BILL /s/ ALVERT V. LaBICHE, Foreman of Grand Jury
New Orleans, March 22, 1967
Returned in Open Court and recorded and filed March 22, 1967
/s/ GEORGE W. PLATT, Minute Clerk
Clay L. Shaw was a respected New Orleans businessman. It was also later learned that he was a contract agent for the CIA.
Shaw passed away in 1974. He is the only individual ever prosecuted in respect to the assassination of President Kennedy. When New Orleans District Attorney Earling Carothers "Jim" Garrison heard that Lee Harvey Oswald had been arrested for the assassination of President Kennedy, Garrison remembered that a Lee Harvey Oswald had been arrested only three months earlier in New Orleans while Oswald was passing out pro-Fidel Castro literature on a local street corner.
"Somewhere in the vortex that was the Clay Shaw trial," writes Walt Brown and Jan Stevens, "the American people began to see conspiracy emerging in the death of John F. Kennedy ...
"The case was weakened by several of the witnesses Garrison was able to produce, many of whom had credibility factors weighing against them, as well as by the death of [David] Ferrie, who knew too much to ever sit in a witness box.
"The case was also damaged by the volume of interested government officials, some of whom may have had agendas other than seeing justice done. Garrison was denied extraditions and/or subpoenas of witness like Allen Dulles, Richard Case Nagell and others whose testimony could have had an important impact on the outcome.
"The testimony of police officer Aloysius Habighorst - who had booked Shaw and noted Shaw’s admission of the "Bertrand" alias - was not allowed in court. We now know that Garrison’s office was infiltrated by those outside of his employ. Files were stolen, phones probably tapped, key records surreptitiously given to the defense team. Ultimately, the process wore down all the participants, and Shaw was acquitted. Some jurors felt that though there was seemingly a conspiracy in the assassination, Shaw’s involvement in it was not proven to their satisfaction.
"Had Garrison had some of the subsequent information of Shaw’s involvement in the Permindex Corporation or any of the recently released documentation of his association with covert activities of the CIA, the verdict may have been otherwise..."
Jim Garrison questioned the government's intelligence operations in open court. Against all odds, he was questioning officials and battling a hostile press. Walt Brown and Jan Stevens: "For all his contemporaneous pronouncements and mistakes, [Garrison] was the only man who ever took on the conspiracy in the courtroom. He started a process that brought forth some new information we now know to be true, and leads that are still being looked into by JFK researchers."
As you read through this portion of testimony you will feel the argumentative, quarrelsome atmosphere of that Lousiana court room. This isn't a script for today's Law and Order television series: You will read a soft-spoken, mild-mannered Abraham Zapruder facing an inoperative witness microphone; attorneys throwing out more objections than Robert Shapiro, and an overall hostile environment.
Here is the entire session of Abraham Zapruder's testimony, which was interrupted by the testimony of Robert West. The entire day's session is presented un-cut. It is doubtful we'll ever read any future sworn testimony on this - the "murder case of the century."
1 AFTERNOON SESSION
1 THE COURT:
2 Is the State and the Defense ready?
3 MR. ALCOCK:
4 We are ready, Your Honor.
5 THE COURT:
6 You may proceed.
10 ...oOo...
11 ABRAHAM ZAPRUDER,
12 after first being duly sworn, was examined and
13 testified on his oath as follows:
14 THE COURT:
15 The spelling of the witness’ name is
16 Abraham Zapruder, Z-A-P-R-U-D-E-R,
17 is that correct?
18 THE WITNESS:
19 Z-A-P-R-U-D-E-R, correct.
20 THE COURT:
21 Very well, you may proceed.
22 DIRECT EXAMINATION
23 BY MR. OSER:
24 Q State your name for the record please?
25 A Abraham Zapruder.
Page 3
1 Q Where do you live, Mr. Zapruder?
2 A 3909 Marquette, Dallas, Texas.
3 Q Mr. Zapruder, what is your occupation?
4 A I manufacture ladies’ dresses.
5 THE COURT:
6 I can’t hear you.
7 THE WITNESS:
8 I manufacture ladies’ dresses.
9 MR. OSER:
10 I don’t believe it is coming over that
11 mike at all.
12 THE COURT:
13 I think the engineer is here. See if
14 someone can fix this microphone.
15 Say, “one, two, three, four,” and
16 see if the man in the back row can
17 hear you.
18 THE WITNESS:
19 One, two, three, four.
20 THE COURT:
21 Can you speak a little louder?
22 THE WITNESS:
23 Yes, I can.
24 THE COURT:
25 Try one more time. Let’s go.
Page 4
1 BY MR. OSER:
2 Q Mr. Zapruder, during November, 1963, what was
3 your occupation?
4 A I can hardly hear you now.
5 Q During November of 1963, what was your
6 occupation?
7 A The same.
8 Q Where is your business located in Dallas?
9 A 501 Elm Street.
10 Q Does the business location have a name to the
11 building?
12 A Yes, it is the Daltex Building.
13 Q I direct your attention to the date of
14 November 22, 1963, and ask you where you
15 were at approximately 12:15 p.m. on that
16 date?
17 A 12:15 p.m. I was looking for a place where
18 to stand so I would be able to take
19 pictures of the arrival of the President.
20 Q Was anybody with you at this time?
21 A Yes, one of my secretaries.
22 Q Did you find such a location?
23 A After three attempts, yes.
24 Q What location did you decide upon?
25 A There was a concrete abutment about 4 feet
Page 5
1 tall and that’s where I decided to stay.
2 MR. OSER:
3 What is the next exhibit number?
3 THE MINUTE CLERK:
4 Thirty-three.
5 BY MR. OSER:
6 Q Mr. Zapruder, I show you what the State has
8 marked for the purpose of identification
9 as S-33, and ask you if you have ever
10 seen this exhibit before?
11 A You mean this picture?
12 Q Yes, sir.
13 A Yes.
14 Q Do you recognize what is depicted in that
15 photograph, sir?
16 A Are you referring to my --
17 THE COURT:
18 You are not going to have a private
19 conversation. Everything is
20 supposed to go into the record, so
21 speak into the microphone loud and
22 clear.
23 THE WITNESS:
24 What is the question?
25 BY MR. OSER:
Page 6
1 Q Do you recognize anything depicted in that
2 photograph, sir?
3 A Yes.
4 Q What do you recognize?
5 A I recognize myself standing there with my
6 secretary on the aforementioned 4 foot
7 concrete abutment.
8 Q Would you circle for me the location with this
9 pen on the photograph where you say you
10 are depicted?
11 A Okay.
12 Q Mr. Zapruder, while you were standing on this
13 concrete abutment did you do anything in
14 particular in regard to what you were
15 waiting to see and hear?
16 A Did I do anything?
17 Q Yes, sir, did you have anything with you and
18 did you do anything?
19 A I had a camera with me.
20 Q What type of camera did you have?
21 A A Bell & Howell motion picture camera,
22 8 millimeter, with a zoom lens.
23 Q Can you tell us what was the color?
24 A It was loaded with color film.
25 Q What was the color of the camera itself?
Page 7
1 A I believe it was black.
2 Q Do you know what type of lens you had in this
3 camera?
4 A I’m not sure, but I believe it was 2.8.
5 Q Which I believe you said is commonly known as
6 a zoom lens?
7 A Yes.
8 MR. DYMOND:
9 I object, he is leading the witness.
10 THE COURT:
11 Don’t lead the witness.
12 MR. OSER:
13 He already testified to that.
14 THE COURT:
15 You can’t lead him even though he has
16 said it.
17 MR. OSER:
18 At this time the State wishes to use one
19 of its other exhibits.
20 MR. DYMOND:
21 We object to it being submitted to the
22 Jury until it is submitted in
23 evidence.
24 THE COURT:
25 Take the Jury into their room.
Page 8
1 (WHEREUPON, the Jury retired to
2 the Jury Room.)
3 THE COURT:
4 Now, Mr. Oser, the photograph which you
5 have numbered S-33 for identifica-
6 tion purposes, I understand you are
7 going to make an offer of that
8 photograph to be received in
9 evidence, and if it is received
10 then you wish to present an
11 enlargement, is that correct?
12 MR. OSER:
13 No, Your Honor, other exhibits.
14 THE COURT:
15 A separate exhibit?
16 MR. OSER:
17 Yes, Your Honor, separate from Exhibit
18 S-33 for identification.
19 THE COURT:
20 You may show us the exhibit and we will
21 see what it is.
22 MR. DYMOND:
23 If the Court please, at this time we
24 object to all this testimony
25 concerning Dealey Plaza on the
Page 9
1 ground of relevancy. Your Honor has
2 ruled many, many times that there is
3 no connection between the happenings
4 at Dealey Plaza and this case. The
5 only overt act alleged by the State
6 in connection with happenings at
7 Dallas at that time was the alleged
8 taking by Lee Harvey Oswald of the
9 gun from his home to the School Book
10 Depository. I refer Your Honor to
11 RS15:441, which gives a codal
12 definition of relevant evidence and
13 reads as follows:
14 “Relevant evidence is that
15 tending to show the commission of
16 the offense and the intent or
17 tending to negative the commission
18 of the offense and the intent. The
19 facts necessary to be known to
20 explain a relevant fact or which
21 support and inference raised by
22 such a fact are admissible.”
23 It is our contention that none
24 of this evidence comes within that
25 codal definition of relevant
Page 10
1 evidence. It is on that basis that
2 we object.
3 MR. ALCOCK:
4 I think, Your Honor, we have argued this
5 at length on prior occasions, but I
6 think the words Mr. Dymond noted
7 towards the end of his argument are
8 important, that is, “The facts
9 necessary to be known to explain a
10 relevant fact or which support an
11 inference raised by such a fact are
12 admissible.”
13 We have in the record of this
14 case an alleged discussion
15 participated in by the Defendant,
16 Lee Oswald and David Ferrie relative
17 to the assassination of the President
18 of the United States. We have a
19 discussion of triangulation of
20 crossfire, the use of rifles in the
21 assassination attempt, or in the
22 discussion itself, and certainly
23 this evidence the State submits,
24 will be connected up. The State
25 also suggests it is highly
Page 11
1 corroborative of this conspiratorial
2 meeting and for this reason the
3 State submits it is relevant to the
4 facts already stated in evidence --
5 MR. DYMOND:
6 Your Honor, all the things Mr. Alcock
7 outlined were alleged and have been
8 before the Court for approximately
9 two years, and were the basis for
10 all Your Honor’s rulings up till
11 now, that there was no connection
12 between what happened, so the State
13 argued, and now we have here a
14 complete reversal of the position.
15 MR. ALCOCK:
16 The State has never reversed its
17 position. The State’s position was
18 that it could, if it wanted to,
19 overprove its case. The State
20 admits, and this Court has acknow-
21 ledged on numerous occasions, the
22 State does not have to prove, as a
23 matter of law, the President was
24 killed as a result of this alleged
25 conspiratorial meeting. However,
Page 12
1 the State may call evidence which
2 tends to confirm or corroborate that
3 it was discussed. It would then be
4 the duty of the Jury to decide
5 whether or not to give any weight to
6 the evidence adduced regarding the
7 events in Dallas, Texas, relative
8 to the actual assassination area.
9 They can consider the President was
10 shot on that occasion, and if the
11 State can prove he was shot from
12 more than one direction the State has
13 in effect proven a conspiracy, or
14 more than one person shooting at
15 him, and these are things the Jury
16 can infer from this evidence and
17 they are simply and purely corrobor-
18 ative of the testimony of
19 Perry Russo, and in addition to that
20 the testimony of Mr. Spiesel, who
21 also mentioned the fact of shooting
22 the President with rifles.
23 MR. DYMOND:
24 Your Honor, nothing Mr. Alcock says
25 presents anything that has not been
Page 13
1 before this Court and used as a
2 basis for Your Honor’s previous
3 rulings. It is Your Honor’s job to
4 decide what is relevant and what is
5 not relevant.
6 THE COURT:
7 I’m aware of that.
8 MR. DYMOND:
9 It is not up to the Jury.
10 THE COURT:
11 You have made your arguments to me and
12 I understand both arguments advanced.
13 The evidence must be relevant to a
14 material issue.
15 I am going to read again
16 Article 441, which you read, and
17 also read a little further.
18 “Relevant evidence is that
19 tending to show . . . .”
20 (REPORTER’S NOTE: The quoted passage was
21 not handed to the Reporter; the reader
22 is referred to the source.)
23 There is no question about it,
24 that the State can overprove its
25 case if it so desires, and I feel
Page 14
1 the evidence that is now being
2 offered as to what occurred in
3 Dallas is relevant evidence and I
4 will admit it and therefore I will
5 overrule your objection.
6 MR. DYMOND:
7 To which ruling Counsel objects and
8 reserves a bill of exception, making
9 the entire testimony of this witness,
10 the Defense’s objection and the
11 Court’s ruling and the record up to
12 this time part of the bill.
13 THE COURT:
14 Let us see this exhibit. What is that
15 and who is that and who are you
16 going to use to identify it?
17 MR. OSER:
18 Mr. Zapruder and Mr. Robert West, who is
19 the County Surveyor for Dallas,
20 Texas and has been since 1944.
21 THE COURT:
22 The County Surveyor would be the person
23 who could say whether or not this
24 is a true representation of that
25 area on that date. What date was
Page 15
1 is taken?
2 MR. OSER:
3 I don’t know the date it was taken,
4 Your Honor, but this represents
5 Dealey Plaza on November 22.
6 THE COURT:
7 The materiality depends upon it portraying
8 the conditions that existed at 12:15
9 on November 22, 1963. If it does
10 then it is relevant, if it does not,
11 it is not.
12 MR. OSER:
13 Mr. West can identify it as to the
14 topographical arrangements and the
15 buildings and streets and other
16 things being the same in this picture
17 as they were on November 22, 1963.
18 THE COURT:
19 What about the trees, are the trees the
20 same?
21 MR. OSER:
22 I think the gentleman could also testify
23 to that, Your Honor.
24 THE COURT:
25 What is your next one? Let us give them
Page 16
1 a number. That one will be --
2 MR. OSER:
3 This is S-34.
4 THE COURT:
5 The other one will be what?
6 MR. OSER:
7 S-35, Your Honor.
8 THE COURT:
9 Tell us what that is supposed to be.
10 MR. OSER:
11 It is the survey plat made by
12 Mr. Robert West, drawn by him for
13 the FBI, for the Federal Government
14 on May 31, 1964.
15 THE COURT:
16 What year?
17 MR. OSER:
18 May 31, 1964 it is certified to, and I
19 think Mr. West will testify in his
20 opinion it actually represents what
21 the land and topographical area was
22 on November 22, 1963.
23 THE COURT:
24 What is your next exhibit?
25 MR. OSER:
Page 17
1 A scale model, which the State marks as
2 S-36 for the purpose of identifica-
3 tion, purporting to be representative
4 of the area known as Dealey Plaza.
5 MR. DYMOND:
6 I thought we were told that was not a
7 scale model.
8 MR. OSER:
9 You are right, not a scale model, a
10 markup. The State is not alleging
11 it is to scale.
12 THE COURT:
13 Who prepared it?
14 MR. OSER:
15 It was prepared by CBS.
16 THE COURT:
17 Who is going to identify it as being a
18 true picture of the scene on
19 November 22, 1963?
20 MR. OSER:
21 Mr. West can identify it, and
22 Mr. Zapruder can testify this
23 represents the streets and the
24 buildings and area known as Dealey
25 Plaza.
Page 18
1 MR. DYMOND:
2 Unless it is to scale we are going to
3 object because it can very easily
4 present a distorted picture.
5 THE COURT:
6 They don’t offer it as a scale model.
7 They offer it to portray the scene
8 but not a scale model.
9 How are you going to have
10 Mr. Zapruder testify as to Exhibits
11 34, 35 and 36, unless you get them
12 in evidence?
13 MR. OSER:
14 I would ask then that we call Mr. West
15 at this time.
16 THE COURT:
17 That’s what I would suggest. You may
18 step down, Mr. Zapruder.
19 MR. DYMOND:
20 We object to these exhibits being seen
21 by the Jury until they are received.
22 (WITNESS EXCUSED.)
23 THE COURT:
24 I would suggest we call Mr. West and put
25 him under oath out of the presence
Page 19
1 of the Jury and go through his
2 testimony. If you have no objection
3 you can do it all over again in the
4 presence of the Jury.
5 ...oOo...
6 ROBERT WEST,
7 after first being duly sworn, was examined and
8 testified on his oath as follows:
9 THE COURT:
10 Would you be kind enough to spell your
11 name?
12 THE WITNESS:
13 Robert H. West, W-E-S-T.
14 THE COURT:
15 You may proceed.
16 DIRECT EXAMINATION
17 BY MR. SCIAMBRA:
18 Q What is your occupation, sir?
19 A I am a land surveyor, the County Surveyor for
20 Dallas County.
21 Q Would you briefly tell the Court the nature
22 of your duties as surveyor for Dallas
23 County, Dallas, Texas?
24 A Basically keeping the survey records, the
25 land survey records of the County, making
Page 20
1 them available to the public and so
2 forth.
3 Q Do your duties include any on-the-scene survey
4 work?
5 A In my official capacity as County Surveyor
6 very, very rarely. The County Surveyor’s
7 Office is mainly in the surveying of
8 public bond domain, of which there is
9 very little left in Dallas County.
10 Q Relative to other aspects of your occupation,
11 do you do on-the-scene survey work?
12 A Yes, sir.
13 MR. SCIAMBRA:
14 At this time the State would attempt to
15 qualify this witness as an expert
16 surveyor and therefore qualified to
17 give his expert opinion relative to
18 the topographical aspects of Dealey
19 Plaza in Dallas, Texas.
20 THE COURT:
21 Does the Defense wish to traverse
22 Mr. West on the proposition of his
23 being an expert?
24 MR. DYMOND:
25 Just a few questions.
Page 21
1 BY MR. DYMOND:
2 Q Mr. West, what is --
3 MR. SCIAMBRA:
4 I haven’t questioned him yet. I haven’t
5 brought out his qualifications yet.
6 THE COURT:
7 You may proceed to do so.
8 BY MR. SCIAMBRA:
9 Q How long have you been County Surveyor for
10 the County of Dallas, Texas?
11 A Since 1944.
12 Q What training have you had, whether in some
13 institution or whether in an apprentice
14 type of situation?
15 A The basic training was with my father who was
16 County Surveyor from 1904 until 1944, at
17 which time I assisted him. I also,
18 during that period, attended A&M
19 College and Southern Methodist University
20 taking civil engineering.
21 Q At what age did you begin to receive your
22 training under the tutorship of your
23 father?
24 A When I was 12, 13 years old he started taking
25 me to the field to help him make these
Page 22
1 land surveys.
2 Q Have you ever been qualified as an expert
3 surveyor in any courts?
4 A Yes, sir.
5 Q Approximately how many courts have you been
6 qualified as an expert in?
7 A All the courts in Dallas County. The County
8 Courts, the District Courts and the
9 Federal Courts.
10 THE COURT:
11 Mr. Alcock, I would suggest you tender
12 Mr. West for traverse by the
13 Defense.
14 MR. ALCOCK:
15 The State will tender him.
16 BY MR. DYMOND:
17 Q Mr. West, is there such a thing as a
18 topographical surveyor?
19 A One who does nothing but topographical work?
20 Q Topographical work, yes.
21 A There are, but I don’t know of any personally.
22 Q Do all surveyors do topographical work?
23 A All the land surveyors should be able to do
24 topographical work.
25 Q Do you do topographical work, sir?
Page 23
1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q Did you graduate in civil engineering?
3 A No, sir.
4 MR. DYMOND:
5 That is all, sir.
6 THE COURT:
7 Mr. Dymond, does the Defense wish to put
8 any witness on the traverse as to the
9 expertise of the witness Mr. West
10 being an expert in this field?
11 MR. DYMOND:
12 No, we don’t wish to do that.
13 THE COURT:
14 Is the matter submitted?
15 MR. SCIAMBRA:
16 It is submitted by the State.
17 THE COURT:
18 I will rule that Mr. West by training,
19 experience and study is an expert
20 in this field and can give his
21 opinion as to the landmarks in
22 Dallas County, Dallas, Texas on
23 November 22, 1963.
24 BY MR. SCIAMBRA:
25 Q Did you have occasion during the course of
Page 24
1 your duties to survey and draw a survey
2 plat for the Federal Bureau of
3 Investigation relative to Dealey Plaza?
4 A Yes, sir.
5 Q Do you see that survey or reproduction of it
6 in court today?
7 A I think it is on the easel over there on the
8 left.
9 Q Is this survey drawn to scale, and if so, what
10 scale?
11 A Yes, sir. The scale is noted on the plat.
12 The large portion of the map is drawn to
13 the scale of one inch equal to twenty
14 feet. The other portion, which has to do
15 with vertical control --
16 Q Let me ask you this, Mr. West: Is this a
17 complete survey of Dealey Plaza?
18 A No, sir.
19 Q In what respects is it incomplete?
20 A It is not complete, it does not show all of
21 the topographical features within this
22 particular quadrant of Dealey Plaza.
23 Q Is there any particular reason why it does
24 not show this?
25 A This is what was required by an FBI agent.
Page 25
1 This is what he instructed me to survey
2 and to plat.
3 Q Particularly relative to the location of the
4 street and what is referred to as a
5 wooden stockade, and the location of the
6 other landmarks which are on this plat,
7 are they in the same location as they
8 were in on November 23, 1963?
9 A I cannot testify to the location of the sign
10 as being in the exact position.
11 Q Are these signs clearly marked on the plat?
12 A Yes, sir.
13 Q Relative to the other aspects of this plat,
14 can you testify to them?
15 A All of the aspects on the plat to the best of
16 my knowledge are the same.
17 Q As they were on the 22nd of November?
18 A Right.
19 Q When was this plat made, if you know?
20 A I can’t see the date. It is on the map there.
21 Q Is there a date on the plat?
22 A Yes, sir.
23 Q Would you please step down and walk over to
24 the plat?
25 A April 31, 1964.
Page 26
1 Q Is your name on the plat?
2 A My name is printed on the map and also my
3 signature is on the map.
4 Q Are there any seals on the plat?
5 A There is a seal of the Public Surveyor’s
6 Office.
7 Q Was this seal placed on the plat by you?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q Mr. West, I direct your attention to what the
10 State has previously marked as S-34, which
11 purports to be an aerial photograph, and
12 I ask you whether or not you can tell
13 the Court of what this is a photograph?
14 If you cannot see it plainly you can step
15 over here.
16 A I believe I can see it. It is a photograph of
17 part of Dealey Plaza at the intersection
18 of Houston, Elm, Main and Commerce in
19 Dallas.
20 Q I request you get up from your witness chair
21 and inspect this photograph very carefully,
22 please. Would you come over here and
23 inspect it?
24 A All right.
25 Q You may return to your seat. Mr. West, you
Page 27
1 have inspected what purports to be an
2 aerial photograph of Dealey Plaza, is
3 that correct, sir?
4 A Yes.
5 Q To the best of your knowledge are the
6 buildings, streets and various landmarks,
7 including the trees that are depicted in
8 this photograph, in the same location and
9 position as they were in on November 22,
10 1963?
11 A Yes, sir.
12 Q Are the objects which are depicted in this
13 map, in this photograph, in the same
14 location as the objects which are
15 depicted in your plat, as far as it
16 goes?
17 A The same relative location of streets,
18 buildings and so forth.
19 Q Mr. West, I would ask you to please step down
20 and inspect what has been previously
21 marked as S-36.
22 A All right.
23 Q Please return to your seat. Mr. West, you
24 have inspected what has been marked as
25 S-36, is that correct, sir?
Page 28
1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q Do you recognize this as being any particular
3 location?
4 A Well, it is basically the same area as covered
5 in the photograph. Commerce, Main, Elm
6 and Houston Streets, showing the court-
7 house and the jail and so forth.
8 Q As a result of your inspection were you able to
9 determine any errors which might be
10 represented here as opposed to the actual
11 scene in Dallas, Texas?
12 A That covers such a multitude of things I don’t
13 know that I could answer that question.
14 Q Are there any major errors?
15 A I don’t see any major errors.
16 Q Are there any buildings on here which are not
17 in Dealey Plaza, Dallas, Texas?
18 A No.
19 Q Are there any streets on here which are not
20 in Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas?
21 A No, sir.
22 Q Where is your office located in Dallas,
23 Mr. West?
24 A At the date of this survey it was located on
25 the first floor of the northwest corner
Page 29
1 of the old courthouse at the corner of
2 Main and Houston.
3 Q Is the old courthouse depicted in this aerial
4 photograph?
5 A Yes, sir, it is in the lower right-hand corner.
6 Q Were you present in Dealey Plaza at approxi-
7 mately noon on November 22, 1963?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q Therefore in your expert opinion the two
10 exhibits, S-30 and S-36, do they fairly
11 represent the area as it was on that date,
12 is that right?
13 A Right.
14 Q More specifically, the markup which the State
15 does allege is not to scale, and you have
16 noticed there are some minor mistakes, is
17 that right?
18 A Right.
19 Q But there are no buildings, streets or major
20 obstacles which are located out of
21 position, is that right?
22 A Right.
23 THE COURT:
24 Mr. Dymond, Mr. Wegmann and Mr. Wegmann,
25 do you wish to traverse on these
Page 30
1 exhibits?
2 MR. DYMOND:
3 Yes, I do.
4 THE COURT:
5 You may do it.
6 BY MR. DYMOND:
7 Q Mr. West, I have particular reference to what
8 has been termed a markup, that is this
9 model here before me. You stated on
10 Direct Examination there are some minor
11 mistakes on it. Would you mind coming
12 down here and point them out to us,
13 these minor mistakes?
14 A Basically what I intended to say was that the
15 markup covers such a large area that it
16 would be impossible for me to check out
17 every minute detail as to scale, location
18 of trees, location of traffic strips,
19 et cetera, that are on this model. I
20 couldn’t say whether they are in the
21 correct position or not.
22 Q Mr. West, the markup doesn’t purport to be a
23 scale markup, so errors as to scale would
24 not be relevant here. Can you point out
25 other errors, other than scale errors.
Page 31
1 that might exist?
2 A I would have to examine it again to pick out
3 any big errors such as that.
4 Q You are free to examine it if you wish to,
5 Mr. West.
6 A Basically the model doesn’t indicate the
7 concrete wall or fence along the west
8 side of the area that leads across
9 Houston Street from the Criminal Court and
10 jail building between the lagoon and Elm
11 Street.
12 THE COURT:
13 The Court Reporter has to get this down,
14 so will you speak louder, please.
15 THE WITNESS:
16 (Continuing) There is a concrete wall
17 that runs along the west side of the
18 lagoon, west of Houston Street.
19 It is terribly difficult here to say
20 what is missing in a model of this
21 type. For example, the storm sewer
22 inlets are not shown on Elm, Main or
23 Commerce.
24 THE COURT:
25 I cannot hear you.
Page 32
1 THE WITNESS:
2 (Continuing) The storm sewers are not
3 shown on Main, Elm or Commerce. The
4 highway sign shown here, I couldn’t
5 say it is in the correct position.
6 Basically that’s about all.
7 BY MR. DYMOND:
8 Q You may return to the stand. Mr. West, would
9 you be able to testify as to whether this
10 markup contains the same number of trees
11 in the same locations and of approximately
12 the same relative size as those that were
13 in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963?
14 A No, sir.
15 Q You could not?
16 A No, sir.
17 Q Mr. West, I refer to a building here, and ask
18 you what building this represents?
19 A This is the Criminal Courts Building.
20 Q Where would the Records Building be in relation
21 to this Criminal Courts Building?
22 A Immediately behind it or east of it.
23 Q Back this way?
24 A Right.
25 Q When was the Records Building built?
Page 33
1 A To the best of my knowledge along in the 1920's.
2 Q When was the new Criminal Courts Building built?
3 A The late ‘40's.
4 Q Is it not a fact that facing this markup over
5 in this left area are the railroad tracks,
6 that there is a railroad observation
7 tower with a big plate glass window in the
8 front of it permitting open view into what
9 has been termed the grassy knoll area?
10 A There is a tower and it has, I am sure, a view
11 of the railroad. I have never been up
12 there so I couldn’t say what the view is.
13 THE COURT:
14 Could you find in the aerial photograph
15 that of which you are speaking?
16 MR. DYMOND:
17 In order to enlighten you as to what I
18 am speaking of, Mr. West, I am
19 pointing my finger to the building
20 to which I have reference on
21 State-34.
22 THE COURT:
23 Why don’t you step down, sir. I have a
24 magnifying glass here if you want
25 it.
Page 34
1 MR. DYMOND:
2 I don’t believe so, Your Honor.
3 THE WITNESS:
4 Yes, I can see it.
5 BY MR. DYMOND:
6 Q Such a building does exist and did exist on
7 November 22, 1963?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Is that building represented on this markup at
10 all?
11 A I don’t believe so.
12 Q Now, with respect to the large exhibit over
13 here, Mr. West, which has been marked for
14 identification as State-35, is such a
15 building represented on this survey?
16 A No, sir.
17 Q Is there anything on this survey which would
18 indicate the number and the size and the
19 location of trees in this area?
20 A There are several trees shown. The size, no.
21 You mean the diameter of the trunk of
22 the tree?
23 Q And the height of the trunk of the tree.
24 A We didn’t attempt to show the diameter or
25 height of any trees.
Page 35
1 Q Would you call this, sir, a topographical
2 survey or not?
3 A Within its limits.
4 Q Within what limits?
5 A Within the limits that were indicated to me by
6 the FBI, that this was the information
7 that they wanted to be shown on this map.
8 Within those limits it is a topographical
9 map.
10 Q Do those limits coincide with your definition
11 of a topographical survey?
12 A Within those limits, yes, sir.
13 Q I am talking about your general definition and
14 knowledge of the term ‘topographical
15 survey’.
16 A For example, the information shown at Houston
17 Street beginning at Main and running
18 northerly along Elm Street and beginning
19 at Houston and running westerly to the
20 triple underpass, that in my opinion is a
21 true topographical map showing all the
22