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Final Discussion

ARRB session of 4/2/97

 8             We have one item of housekeeping that we have 

 9   to take care of at this public meeting.  We have 

10   minutes from a meeting we held on October 16, 1996, 

11   that have been distributed to all board members. 

12             MR. JOYCE:  Motion.  

13             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  Second?  

14             MS. NELSON:  Second.

15             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  Moved and seconded that the 

16   minutes be approved.  All in favor?  

17             (Chorus of ayes.) 

18             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  Opposed?  

19             (No response.)  

20             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  It is carried on a unanimous 

21   vote.  

22             MR. MARWELL:  One other housekeeping matter, 


 1   the vote to close portions of the next meeting on April 

 2   23 and 24 -- 

 3             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  For purposes of reviewing 

 4   classified material?  

 5             MR. JOYCE:  So moved.  

 6             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  Second?  

 7             MR. HALL:  Second.  

 8             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  All those opposed? 

 9             (No response.) 

10             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  That motion is carried.

11             Further, we heard from Mr. Gunn earlier that 

12   there are aspects of this decision that are before the 

13   board relative to the camera-original film that can be 

14   debated in public, and aspects of it that cannot.  Now 

15   is the appropriate time for additional discussion or 

16   debate, or course of action that people would like to 

17   pursue.  Comment?  

18             MS. NELSON:  I am somewhat mystified by the 

19   interpretation of the Nixon Papers Act that compensated 

20   him.  I was sitting here trying to remember that, but I 

21   seem to recall -- in fact, there is Steve Tilley.  

22   Maybe he can help us out.  I seem to remember there was 


 1   no compensation, and instead, the seperation of the 

 2   public and the private papers.  Perhaps we can ask 

 3   Mr.-- 

 4             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  Steve, there is a question 

 5   that has arisen.  You may or may not have the answer.  

 6             MS. NELSON:  A law professor from GW raised 

 7   the issue of compensation -- we were talking about 

 8   anything comparable to what we are trying to decide now 

 9   with the Zapruder film and he raised the question of 

10   the Nixon Act, that in fact there was -- the part of it 

11   that gave compensation to Nixon.  I can't remember 

12   that.  We didn't finally compensate him?  

13             MR. TILLEY:  Yes, the Court of Appeals ruled 

14   that there was compensation required under the PRMPA.  

15   Whether the compensation has taken place or not, I 

16   don't know.  

17             MS. NELSON:  I have never seen that, in fact, 

18   he was compensated.  The big debate has been over the 

19   issue of what were his personal papers and what were 

20   the public papers and I have never seen -- 

21             MR. TILLEY:  The ultimate decision was that 

22   for his personal papers, he was to be a compensated.  


 1   That was a taking of private papers for public use.  

 2   There was compensation to him and the court found that 

 3   the Act permitted that compensation.  

 4             There is another example in this particular 

 5   area where Congress passed a law in 1965 to provide 

 6   compensation for certain parts of the assassination 

 7   evidence that had been collected, to provide 

 8   compensation to, for example, Marina Oswald for the 

 9   articles that had been seized by the Congress.  

10   Congress has enacted specific laws that would address 

11   this.  In the Nixon papers, I believe, it was found by 

12   the Court that the Act effected the taking of private 

13   property for public use.  

14             MS. NELSON:  Then the decision had to be made 

15   as to what is private property, what on the tapes were 

16   private, and what was public.  So maybe the decision 

17   has been deferred.  

18             MR. GRAFF:  Has the sum of money been decided 

19   upon and paid and made public?  

20             MR. TILLEY:  I don't believe the actual 

21   compensation has taken place.  

22             MR. GRAFF:  Even though the taking occurred 


 1   several years ago.  

 2             MR. TILLEY:  The compensation case was one of 

 4   certainly the Nixon materials, and there was a ruling 

 5   that said there must be compensation but I don't 

 6   believe there has been a completion of that suit yet.  

 7   Our legal counsel would actually be the best people 

 8   that the board could address that question to.  

 9             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  Further comments?  We 

10   unfortunately don't have a lot of time this afternoon 

11   due to travel schedules to engage in a lengthy debate.  

12   Mr. Hall?  

13             MR. HALL:  I want to compliment David Marwell 

14   and Jeremy and in essence the entire staff.  I think 

15   this has turned out to be one of our most productive 

16   and enlightening public hearings.  I think the scope of 

17   the range and the sophistication that people were 

18   willing to bring to the issues that were presented will 

19   in fact be quite helpful to us.  It certainly 

20   reinforces in my mind the importance again of making 

21   sure that the historical field of play is in fact one 

22   that is level and balanced and that all subjects to 


 1   come will have the same opportunity as those who have 

 2   come before.  

 3             I think we as a group ought to be pretty 

 4   close to being able to reach a decision on this matter 

 5   and at some point I will hopefully make a motion to my 

 6   fellow board members, if my fellow board members felt 

 7   it appropriate to come up with an answer to the 

 8   question that is before us at our next meeting.  

 9             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  I think we certainly can -- 

10   we certainly will have the information available to us 

11   by then, the information from today's hearing, from the 

12   public record being kept open for the next several 

13   weeks for additional testimony to come in.  So I would 

14   think that is an appropriate motion to make.  

15             MR. HALL:  Let me then make the motion, and 

16   the motion would be that the board as a matter of 

17   practice on this issue will search -- reach or take a 

18   decision at its next meeting with regard to the issue 

19   of the Zapruder film as it has been presented to us.  

20             MR. JOYCE:  Second.  

21             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  Moved and seconded that the 

22   motion be -- that the decision be made at the next 


 1   regularly scheduled meeting of the board.  Is there 

 2   further discussion on that matter? 

 3             Hearing none, all in favor of the motion say 

 4   aye.

 5             (No response.)

 6             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  Opposed?   

 7             (No response.)

 8             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  It is carried on a unanimous 

 9   vote.  Anything further that we should be reviewing 

10   this afternoon, Dr. Marwell?  

11             MR. MARWELL:  Should I take it from that 

12   motion that we should schedule an open meeting at the 

13   next -- 

14             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  We should assume there is 

15   time before the 23rd or the 24th?  

16             MR. HALL:  I think today has certainly 

17   demonstrated the great value of bringing, as our 

18   general counsel has so ably presented to us, the light 

19   of public interest to bear on an issue of such 

20   significance.  And in making that decision, I think we 

21   all recognize and understand the importantance of 

22   publicly stating our positions.  


 1             MR. MARWELL:  Is there anything we can do to 

 2   help you along the way, additional testimony or 

 3   evidence from the public?  

 4             MR. JOYCE:  What will be the process with 

 5   regard to the additional testimony that comes in 

 6   between now and then?  

 7             MR. MARWELL:  We will collect it and 

 8   distribute it as it arrives.  I think that is the best 

 9   way, to collect a -- 

10             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  Will the transcript of this 

11   hearing be available?  

12             MR. MARWELL:  Yes.  We will distribute that 

13   as well.  

14             MS. NELSON:  I would suggest that we might 

15   ask someone in the legal section of the Archives, like 

16   Miriam Nisbet, about the Nixon case.  I keep raising 

17   this because I am not sure it is a very good example 

18   for us.  I don't know that it is comparable.  

19             MR. MARWELL:  I think his point is that where 

20   the taking power was explicitly stated in the Act.

21             MR. GUNN:  We can get the information from 

22   the Archives about that.  


 1             MR. GRAFF:  I suppose that this company knows 

> 2   that C-Span was recording, that this was of particular 

 3   interest nationally, and one of the important reasons 

 4   why Judge Tunheim offered the address at the end was 

 5   that people everywhere in the country will, whatever 

 6   hour of the day or night, will hear the invitation.  I 

 7   know it will please Ms. Conway too, in light of the 

 8   intensity with which she spoke.  

 9             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  We didn't give them your 

10   e-mail address.  

11             MR. GRAFF:  Thank you.  

12             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  Anything further to come 

13   before the board today? 

14             Mr. Gunn, anything further you have for us? 

15             Is there a motion for us to adjourn?  

16             MS. NELSON:  So moved.  

17             JUDGE TUNHEIM:  Second?  

18             MR. JOYCE:  Second. 

19             (Whereupon, at 3:55 p.m., the hearing was 

20   adjourned.)

21                           - - -


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